LeBron James is the NBA Goat

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Agent
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by Agent » 12 Feb 2023, 23:49

Prove me wrong.

I want to hear your disputes.

This is the hill I die on. :lol2:
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mvp
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by mvp » 13 Feb 2023, 07:07

:kghah:
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Agent
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by Agent » 13 Feb 2023, 09:23

It’s the truth. The only argument for MJ to be the goat has to come at Lebron’s finals losses.. & even then, how is making it to the finals 8 years in a row something to just look over?

LeBrons played far more possessions in a much faster pace NBA against better teams than in the 90s. The positionless basketball of today would pick those old squads apart.



JJ is my new favorite on ESPN
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mvp
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by mvp » 13 Feb 2023, 10:15

agent wrote:/
let me list out some points:

1. Rules have changed to favor offense. like u said the pace and possessions and all that is dramatically higher making offense and OFFENSIVE stats WAY easier. we were talking in the chat box about this the other day about how there are 20 guys averaging 25+PPG and 55 players averaging 20+PPG this year - Bron averages 30... in 1987, there were 9 guys who averaged 25+PPG and 20 guys who scored 20+PPG - MJ averaged 37 PPG!...

2. Two-way player...

LBJ's best steal season: 2.2 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 27.2 PPG
LBJ's best block season: 1.8 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 30.0 PPG

MJ's best steal season: 3.2 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 35.0 PPG (this was also his best block season)
MJ's 2nd best block season: 2.9 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 37.1 PPG

MJ is CLEARLY more dominant on defense AND scoring... those numbers are DOMINATING.

---

Let's talk about rebounds just to keep it objective now. Bron has a career average of 7.5 RPG as primarily a small/power forward, including plenty of times playing center as well. Whereas MJ averaged 6.2 RPG as a guard (top 10 for his position all-time)!

Oh and assists? All-time it goes to LeBron who averaged about 2 assists higher per game. BUT HERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING: when MJ played the primary ball handler role (like LeBron always has), he averaged 32 PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG -- and guess who NEVER averaged 30+PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG in the same season.. LeBron.. and btw MJ averaged 2.9 steals that year too!!!

---

The dude is mentally above any other athlete ever. Not sure how you can take those numbers and say Bron has EVER been more dominating than MJ at any point.

---

Longevity and all that stuff, yes LeBron is impressive af and we shouldn't be bashing him, but those who watched MJ and remember his pure dominance physically and mentally on every single part of the court is just unmatched. His will to win would have NEVER allowed his team to LOSE in a moment where he became the all-time leading scorer.. like LeBron did.

Not taking anything away from LeBron because I love LeBron's game and appreciate him for him. but like I said, the dude is NOT MJ.
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by Agent » 14 Feb 2023, 07:33

mvp wrote:
13 Feb 2023, 10:15
1. Rules have changed to favor offense. like u said the pace and possessions and all that is dramatically higher making offense and OFFENSIVE stats WAY easier. we were talking in the chat box about this the other day about how there are 20 guys averaging 25+PPG and 55 players averaging 20+PPG this year - Bron averages 30... in 1987, there were 9 guys who averaged 25+PPG and 20 guys who scored 20+PPG - MJ averaged 37 PPG!...
That's special no doubt to average 37 ppg for 1 season. MJ's career PPG averages to 30.1 & LeBron is 27.2. A difference of 3 ppg with the edge going to MJ but LeBron's field goal %, 3pt %, effective field goal %, & true shooting % are all just slightly higher.. With him averaging 7.3 apg in comparison to MJ's 5.3 & Lebron's 7.5 rebounds to MJ's 6.2.

Their career block averages are the exact same at 0.8 bpg but MJ's got him in steals by 1 more steal per game..
2. Two-way player...

LBJ's best steal season: 2.2 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 27.2 PPG
LBJ's best block season: 1.8 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 30.0 PPG

MJ's best steal season: 3.2 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 35.0 PPG (this was also his best block season)
MJ's 2nd best block season: 2.9 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 37.1 PPG

MJ is CLEARLY more dominant on defense AND scoring... those numbers are DOMINATING.
Michael Jordan career blocks is 893 & Currently LeBron's at 1059. Their career average is the exact same at 0.8 bpg.
MJ's career steals is at 2,514 & LeBron's is at 2,179. He's better at stealing the basketball but DOMINATING Bron?

Let's talk about rebounds just to keep it objective now. Bron has a career average of 7.5 RPG as primarily a small/power forward, including plenty of times playing center as well. Whereas MJ averaged 6.2 RPG as a guard (top 10 for his position all-time)!

Oh and assists? All-time it goes to LeBron who averaged about 2 assists higher per game. BUT HERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING: when MJ played the primary ball handler role (like LeBron always has), he averaged 32 PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG -- and guess who NEVER averaged 30+PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG in the same season.. LeBron.. and btw MJ averaged 2.9 steals that year too!!!
That's really cool to be top 10 for his position as a career rebounder, but he still comes up short in that conversation. Also for assists.. That's not Bron's fault that MJ wasn't the primary ball handler & didn't get those assist numbers up! We're forced to make our decisions based off of the stats presented in front of us so you've got to give the rebounding & playmaking edge to Bron.
The dude is mentally above any other athlete ever. Not sure how you can take those numbers and say Bron has EVER been more dominating than MJ at any point.
It's easy. He holds the record for the most points scored in league history. Literally the greatest accolade you can hold in basketball. He's in his 20th season averaging 30 ppg with more seasons looming for him to come. He's not even finished hooping yet. Sure we could do the math & say "if MJ played 20 seasons then he would have done this.." but he didn't. We have to go off the stats on paper.

Him being mentally above any other athlete could be true but that's not measurable. Even I'll say that he had a more competitive edge to him than Bron, but that alone doesn't give you the GOAT status.
Longevity and all that stuff, yes LeBron is impressive af and we shouldn't be bashing him, but those who watched MJ and remember his pure dominance physically and mentally on every single part of the court is just unmatched. His will to win would have NEVER allowed his team to LOSE in a moment where he became the all-time leading scorer.. like LeBron did.

Not taking anything away from LeBron because I love LeBron's game and appreciate him for him. but like I said, the dude is NOT MJ.
He's not MJ the competitor, but he does everything more efficient than MJ outside of steals & MJ's slight advantage in career PPG.

You've made great points in MJ's defense, but I don't think it was enough to give him the GOAT nod over the King. He held the title long enough. It's time for the Kid from Akron to hold that now..
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djp73
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by djp73 » 14 Feb 2023, 08:12

:popcorn:
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mvp
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by mvp » 14 Feb 2023, 09:10

i feel like a lot of your points are only because lebron played way more seasons...

i didnt even get into awards and championships yet. why dont we compare each player's best 6 seasons in their prime. i dont think theres a case for lebron being "GOAT" outside of his TOTAL accumulations... is emmitt smith the best RB of all time??? not a Fn chance bro! but he has the most all-time rushing yards and TDs, so... i guess in your opinion emmitt smith is the GOAT running back
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by Agent » 14 Feb 2023, 18:35

djp73 wrote:
14 Feb 2023, 08:12
:popcorn:
where do you stand on the topic? Mvp is my homeboy it’s all a fun discussion :lol2: he & I have played back & forth on this topic in my chises too :ugeek:
mvp wrote:
14 Feb 2023, 09:10
i feel like a lot of your points are only because lebron played way more seasons...
Those career averages over 20 seasons is definitely a big part of it for me as a basketball fan. When I compare their career stats, it seems plainly obvious that lebrons a better player. Higher scoring efficiency, more boards & more assists matters when I look at the stats.
i didnt even get into awards and championships yet. why dont we compare each player's best 6 seasons in their prime. i dont think theres a case for lebron being "GOAT" outside of his TOTAL accumulations...
I’m open to what you want to say with this. It’s obvious to me that Jordan’s finals record is better & he holds more championships. His Bulls team is regarded as the best dynasty in league history. Can’t promise I’ll have a rebuttal for isolated single season stats when I’m comparing career stats.
is emmitt smith the best RB of all time??? not a Fn chance bro! but he has the most all-time rushing yards and TDs, so... i guess in your opinion emmitt smith is the GOAT running back
Nah this is crazy because I’m not talking about that at all :lol: are you comparing the all time rushing yards for rbs to the NBAs all time leading scorers list? That’s the greatest record in basketball that you can hold. As for him not winning the game when he broke the record.. look at his team!! :pgdead:
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djp73
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by djp73 » 14 Feb 2023, 19:39

IDK
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LeBron James is the NBA Goat

Post by Agent » 14 Feb 2023, 19:59

djp73 wrote:
14 Feb 2023, 19:39
IDK
Oh come on you have to have an opinion on who's the greatest basketball player ever? It's really nbd technically we're all correct. Even if someone said Kobe Bryant was the GOAT I would respectfully disagree but I mean that's Kobe Bryant. They're not technically wrong :drose:
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